I hope you’re well and enjoying this rather wet weekend. It seems like that’s been a lot of what we’ve been experiencing this winter with higher than average flows and a lot of water this year with record rainfall through February. Who knows, I guess we’ll get March started with more of the same.
It’s good to be back with you. I’m excited about today’s show as there is some fishing to be talked about. It didn’t seem like that through much of December and into January, but when we got into February, everybody was kind of wondering what’s going to happen with the steelhead run. Then, gosh, we’ve had some decent steelhead fishing.
Honestly, I wasn’t really expecting it. I didn’t think it would be that good. It has been. We’ve had some good fishing, but it’s interesting because it seems like up north, the fishing is actually worse. Where we’re located in Oregon, fishing’s been actually pretty darn good. I talk to people going up into Forks, and it hasn’t been that great up there.
But we’ve seen some great weeks. We’ve seen some great days along our coast. I don’t know what it has to do with. Bottom line is, I’m thankful. I’m grateful. It means that there’s actually some fishing to talk about, which is cool.
It’s tough doing a radio show when there’s no fishing to talk about. I know, I know, there’s going to be that person who’s been listening to the show for 10 years and is still waiting for me to talk about panfish. I’m not going to talk about panfish. Okay? I’m just not. All right?
Panfish in Lake Oswego
We live in the Northwest, man, and it’s cool we’ve got a panfish club here in Portland. It’s totally cool. I’m totally excited for you if that’s what you do. I think we’ve all done it. I think we’ve all started there. I’ve caught thousands of bluegill, crappie, perch and bass. I mean, for crying out loud, Lake Oswego was my babysitter.
Growing up, me and Yogi Sandstrom, our parents would drop us off at the lake and go hang out with all the people who’d come from all over Portland to fish. I really wish that was still there. It’d be really cool. But, as far as getting into it on this show, I don’t know.
Plus, they don’t even let you on Lake Oswego anymore. What happened to that? That was cool. My gosh! I mean, you had the Dairy Maid right there. Okay, now this is going old school. If you can’t remember this, I’m sorry, if you’re too young. If you’re older and you can’t remember, you’re just probably not from here.
Anyway, we had the Dairy Maid down on the very, very southern tip of Lake Oswego. Well, it’d be more the easterly tip of Lake Oswego. Right next to the Lake Shore Hotel, you’ve got the Dairy Maid and that had great soft serve ice cream. They had good burgers and good fries. You could catch fish right there. There were all sorts of little tricks and secrets. People would come from all over. Low income folks and just people who loved to fish. It was quite the collection of people.
Then the City of Lake Oswego shut that down. Literally. There’s no fishing allowed, which is kind of silly. You know what I mean? It still till this day feels kind of weird that it’s not okay for people from outside the area to come and fish in an area that’s totally publicly accessible.
C’mon. It’s not like it’s a world class fishery or anything. It’s an urban area and people can come there. Gosh, I remember it being a great place as a kid. But, of course, people here in Lake Oswego aren’t going to do that, and I guess they think, “then nobody should then.”
Jeez, I remember it. It was great. Yogi, if you’re listening, wasn’t that good? That was good, man. That’s what got us started. I’m serious. So, anyway, I digress. I just went off on Lake Oswego fishing. I can’t believe it. Anywho …
We’ve got some steelhead around, and I guess we just find another drop. The river’s going to come up a bit with this new front. It’s always good. We needed it. It was ready. The one system that hasn’t kicked in yet, hasn’t gone big yet, is the Nestucca. It’s been a little bit wishy-washy to this point.
It hasn’t been outstanding, but I think also we should have some more fish in there. I’ve fished it. We caught some fish on it, but it hasn’t gone off like you’d expect the Nestucca to go off yet. We’re at the beginning of March, and it just hasn’t gone off yet. So, it’s a little bit concerning, but whatever. We’ve got the whole month of March. As far as I’m concerned, March is Nestucca time. There probably aren’t many rivers anywhere that fish as well in March as the Nestucca does.
Department Predictions?
Anyway, it is exciting to have some fish around. Hopefully, what we’re experiencing here is a prelude to the possibilities we’re going to have for the rest of the year. We’re not scheduled to have great runs in comparison to, let’s say, the last five years. But the Departments are consistently wrong.
They’re wrong both directions. They’ve underestimated the run several times in the last number of years. They’ve also overestimated the run. Things can happen. It’s not a perfect science. When they miss, it’s usually really good for sport fishing.
It’s good for sport fishing because the intercept fisheries really don’t get their swipe at them. The intercept fisheries get pissed. I mean, they’re flaming pissed when they don’t get their full share. But it just goes to show you that if we didn’t have a lot of those intercept fisheries where those commercial outfits are really laying into our runs that are destined for Oregon and Washington, we’d have some pretty spectacular fishing pretty much all the time.
Even on some of these light runs that we get, we’d still have some pretty danged good fishing in Astoria fishing for Salmon. But we’re giving up a lot of those fish to southeast Alaska and the Canadians, and I don’t know that that’s ever going to change.
Percentage of Commercially Harvested Fish
Think about the percentage of fish that goes to commercial fishing: It’s huge. Again - I have to say this every time I say anything negative about commercial fishing - I’m not against commercial fishing. I never have been. You’re not going to get that on this show. I hope you know that.
When you think about the overall percentage - we’re constantly thinking about our splits on the lower Columbia. Well, the splits on the lower Columbia are just the lower Columbia. You’re talking a 60/40 split or whatever the splits are. I can’t keep up on it. We’ve got splits, anyway.
Half the run goes to the tribes. So we’re dealing with half. Then the gill netters still get a percentage of half. You’ve got commercial fishing above the dams with the tribes, and you’ve got commercial below the dams. You’ve got commercial out in the ocean. You’ve got commercial in Canada. You’ve got commercial in southeast Alaska. You think about it, the amount of fish that’s going to commercials is absolutely staggering.
Between segments I actually did fire off an email. I’m going to figure that out. I’m really curious, just on the Columbia River alone, what the total number of commercially harvested fish is. I’m talking not just what reaches the Columbia because those are easy splits to get. We’ve got all that. Fifty percent goes to the tribes, overall. Then, the remaining 50 percent is split between lower Columbia commercials and sport fishermen.
But what about all the fish that are caught along Washington, by the Oregon and Washington troll fleets, the Canadian fleet, the southeast Alaska fleet and the intercept fisheries? What are those total numbers? What do you think? If we were to guess on this, what are the total numbers that actually go to commercial fishing?
I bet it’s significant. I bet it’s way significant. Do you think sport fishermen are getting 20 percent? Twenty percent overall? I’m guessing right now. I bet it’s less. Because let’s say you’ve got a million fish coming back to the Columbia River. Half goes to the tribes. So, 500,000. Then, if we go about things the way they are proposed for this year, we could potentially be doing 50/50 with the commercials.
Let’s call it 60/40. So, from 500,000 fish you’ve got a percentage that’s going to go to them, and a percentage go us. Of course, you’ve got your escapement. I didn’t account for that. I’d be curious as to what that total number is. I think we’d be surprised.
Sport Fishermen Fees vs. Commercial Fishing Fees vs. Consumption Taxes
I think the numbers that are actually going to commercial fishing are massive. Again, I’m not against commercial fishing. I’m just pointing it out as it’s been years now we’ve had a one chinook limit. It’s like holy cow! You wonder! A family goes out or a couple people go out and you catch a couple chinook, and it’s like, oh wow, that’s overconsumption. Really?
Is that overconsumption? Is catching two chinook too many? I’m just saying. It’s pretty much sport fishermen footing the bill on this. I’d also be curious, as part of this exercise, to add up the landing fees that actually end up in federal or state coffers to contribute to Columbia River fish production, whether it be through hatchery production, certainly, or through fixing rivers or habitat restoration or whatever.
I’d be curious to see what those numbers are and what the disparity is. I think it’d be fascinating. I know there’s been a couple studies and stuff, but I don’t know that there’s been anything this specific in terms of the Columbia River. I think it’d be revealing, actually. I think there’d be some people interested in it. Right?
I think there would be. I think the new administration would be interested in it. They appear to be not necessarily for free rides. I know if you’re a commercial fisherman, you’re probably getting all upset and freaked out right now that I’m even talking about it.
I know you fish for the general public. Okay. Where’s the tax that the general public pays for those fish? Where’s the license fee that they pay for those fish? Sport fishermen pay a licensing fee to go out and catch fish. Okay? It’s pretty simple. You go pay it and then go catch fish.
Well, commercial fishermen pay a hideously low licensing fee for the number of fish that they catch. Then the people who receive the benefit of the fish, they pay, as far as I know, I don’t think they pay anything on top of it. I mean, if we’re going to talk “fair.” If we’re going to be fair and equitable.
Should we talk about this? Or is this uncomfortable? I’m okay with it. I think it’d be interesting. I mean, either way. What if sports aren’t paying enough? I don’t know. I mean, come on. We can be cool about this, right? I think this would be an interesting study. I’m kind of excited about it because I’ll do it. I will. I will do it. I’ll figure it out, and I’ll write about it. It’ll be a great conversation, just to take a look at it.
Usage Taxation on Fish
I think users should pay. That’s kind of my take on it. I think that users should pay. I think that people who use the roads should pay for the roads. I think that people who use bike paths should pay for the bike paths. I think that people who consume fish should pay for the fish.
There are expenses associated with having salmon runs, aren’t there? Why not? I don’t know, what else? Schools? Should people who have their kids in school pay? These are really heady subjects, aren’t they? I mean, just for a bunch of fishermen. We just want to go fishing, right? We were just talking about Lake Oswego panfish, for crying out loud. And we’re getting into this.
But, here’s the thing: These questions at some point are going to need to be discussed. At some point, these questions are going to need to be answered. As budget constraints come, as some of these difficulties arise, these questions are going to need to be addressed.
Because typically, what happens is they just close the hatchery. Or, at least, it’s threatened. The stuff that matters the most to fishermen are the first things that are thrown up on the chopping block during crisis. It’s not the butterfly study or the snail photography or the rat tracking. It’s a hatchery. That’s just what goes first.
A Proposition for Fisheries Management
I kind of got off on this harvest thing in this hour of the Northwest Outdoor Show. It’s actually interesting when you dig in. I do quite a bit of research, and that’s where I get a lot of the things we talk about. I talk to fisheries’ managers. I talk to people who are actually really high up there. I’ve been fortunate enough to have people, whether it be at National Marine Fisheries or the State of Oregon, who have been willing to talk to me.
If you’ve listened to this show for any period of time, you know that I’m pretty critical of some of the management. You would think that I’d get kind of marginalized or that people wouldn’t talk to me anymore. But, actually, there are a lot of fisherman who still work within the department. Now, granted, they don’t have all the pull.
The problem with government is that people aren’t responsible. You’re just kind of a number and everybody contributes little, tiny bits, and then the policies are made way, way at the top and there’s very little you can do about it.
Anyway, I was looking on the break and there’s one particular study that’s out there that says, basically, that of all the salmon that are caught on the open ocean in Alaska, only 10 percent of those fish are returning to Alaskan waters. In fact, 60 percent of the fish that they kill are destined for Canadian waters. Then you’ve got 30 percent, that I’m assuming is broke up between Washington and Oregon - and harvest statistics that I have seen would say that a large number of those returning fish are actually Columbia River’s. Most of the statistics I’ve seen is that it’s somewhere around 20 percent, 25 percent, right in there, that are Columbia River-destined.
That would all make sense. In this same article I was reading, it was funny because I’ve never heard other people say this, but it was suggested that open-ocean salmon fishing be eliminated, and that would be one of the true ways we could manage our resources accordingly. I’ve repeatedly said this. Again, I’m not against commercial fishing. I’m just for maybe modifying how we do it. In fact, commercial guys can still catch them, but we’d actually harvest on stocks that are healthy and we kind of know what’s going on with them. Everybody would have their own fish back.
Alaskans would get to harvest their fish. Canadians would harvest theirs. Washingtonians, so on and so forth. If somebody wanted to suck at it, they could rightfully suck at it. They could kill all their fish, and then they’d be toast. I mean, wouldn’t that be wonderful? It’d be amazing, actually. Then everybody’s left managing their own stocks. Hey, here’s your stock. Manage it.
Alaska’s Position on Fishery Management
The Columbia River would obviously have to be managed collectively between Oregon and Washington. There’s no telling that that would happen, but the biggest adversary to this plan is guess who? Alaska. Why? Because they’ve got everybody’s fish swimming around in that gulf up there on the back side of the Aleutians, and they think these are their fish.
I mean, I think their geese are our geese, too. I think that all these migratory species, they’re all ours. There are none that are yours. I mean, they’re ours. Once they’re in our air space, those Canadian geese are Oregon geese.
As you can see, if we were to manage it and want to make it right, that’s probably how you’d do it. Again, it wouldn’t eliminate commercial fishing. In fact, I’d contend that for Oregon’s commercial fishermen, you’d have a huge boom in available commercial fish simply because you’d have more fish returning to areas that they can fish.
Sockeye Fisheries
The Alaskans would still have their sockeye fisheries. Those are the big fisheries up there that they have. In Bristol Bay, I think they caught 23-24 million sockeye out of Bristol Bay, and apparently they’ve got those numbers to fish for. Now, granted, sockeye runs do pretty well, but the mixed harvest impacts, they have not figured that out. They’ve got lots of runs of Chinooks and Coho that suffer dramatically, and not because the Chinook or Coho are targeted.
Believe it or not, it’s because of the sockeye. Those same fish get caught in nets during the sockeye fisheries. Of course, it’s normal. The sockeye fisheries go off at the end of June, and that’s when the chinook fishing starts. The Coho fisheries are a little later in the year, as you approach August. But, there’s a whole lot of fishing that’s done. If you’ve never seen what an Alaskan sockeye fishery looks like, it’s one heck of a deal. I mean, there are a whole lot of nets in the water. It works for the sockeye.
It’s something to consider. It’d be interesting to float that idea out there, wouldn’t it? Can you imagine? Would fishery managers even know what to do? You’ve got another fifty, sixty, seventy thousand fish returning all just because everybody else isn’t killing your fish. It would be interesting.
Anyway, we do have some fishing that’s been happening. The coast is actually doing pretty darn well. I mentioned earlier on in the show that I was surprised. I didn’t expect it to be this good. We’ve had some good fishing. Even as the water lowered and go to a place where you might think things are slowing down, things have done well, which makes me even more optimistic for the coming month and maybe even the springer.
Bobber Dogging
Big deal down on the coast as usual. The beads are a big deal. You’ve got the soft beads. You’ve got the hard beads. You’ve got the bobber dogging of the beads, you’ve got the bobber dogging of the yarnies. You’ve got these little games that people play. Even off the bank, guys are bobber dogging now. I'm guiding the Wilson River and it looks like a bobber dogging expo!
I mean, bobber dogging is nothing more than strike indicator fishing. Of course, it’s bobber fishing, but it’s more of a strike indicator presentation. You’re just using heavier lead to make sure you’re down in the heavier drifts.
The same sort of fishing is done by fly fisherman in the form of a strike indicator with a little bit of split shot and a very light fly. Call it a chironomid. Call it a prince nymph. Call it a pheasant tail. Whatever you want to call it, it’s the same sort of thing. You might think, well, they’re using split shot so it’s a little more finessed. You don’t need as much lead to get a pheasant tail down as you do to get a yarnie down or some of the other things that are tossed - eggs or whatever. It is interesting, and it’s funny how that’s kind of gone full circle. That’s a pretty basic form of fishing.
Of course, you’ve got your longer leader stuff that looks almost identical to fly fishing where you’ve actually got a fixed float and a 7 ½-, 8-, 9-foot leader that guys are throwing out there with a little bead that just down there kind of floating around. How simple does that get? But that’s what’s going on. Lots of bead guys. Tons and tons of bead guys. And they’re catching them. So, why not? You don’t have to deal with the eggs, whatever, that’s fine. You get to catch your fish. You get to look like a rock star.
Gami has kind of got the hook. I mean, that little, finessed, wide gap hook? All the bead guys, that’s the hook. If you’re wondering, that number two finesse wide gap - that’s your hook. If you’re missing a bunch of fish on the octopus hooks, you need to go to the other hook. That’s the deal.
Get that thing two-, three-finger widths off that hook, and let them grab that bead and whack, right into the maxillary or wherever you hook them. It’s kind of an odd hook set only because it’s kind of coming in from the side because when they bite that bead, it’s several inches up on the hook.
Anyway, it’s just good to have some fishing, isn’t it? Spring is right around the corner. I know there’s been a springer or two caught. So, come on. Run! It’s time to springer fish.
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Total Consumption of Columbia River Salmon by Commercial Fisheries
We’ve been talking about steelhead fishing. We’ve been talking about commercial fishing. I haven’t been bashing on commercial fishing. We’ve just been having a conversation about the total consumption of commercial fisheries of Columbia River salmon, that being something I’m going to birddog.
In fact, I got an email out to one of the guys I know at National Marine Fisheries just while we’ve been doing the show, so, I’m on it, man, and he’s on it, too. He’ll get back to me. We’ve got to get the North of Falcon guy on it, and we can start doing some simple arithmetic on available Columbia River abundance.
The question is, we’ve got 582,000 coming back to the river mouth. But, when you start thinking about consumption in the ocean, that 582,000 they say is expected back to the Columbia River, does that mean from that 582,000 we start subtracting in southeast Alaska, or is there another number that includes those fish?
My guess is it’s 582,000 and you start subtracting from that number. So, your Alaskan fleet gets 50-60,000 fish. Your Washington troll fleet gets X amount. The tribes get half. Where does all that math intersect? That’s my question. Then we can kind of see what percentage of the Columbia River fall salmon fishery is commercially harvested.
Sport Fishermen Fees vs. Commercial Fishing Fees vs. Consumption Tax
My guess is, I would say, 80 percent. If anything, I think I’m low. I think it could be higher than that. It could be more toward 85. Sport fishermen are getting maybe 15 percent, 20 percent. That’s significant. Those are things that need to be discussed as sport fishermen are paying licensing fees, they’ve got volunteer hours. We’ve got all sorts of things that go into sustaining fisheries, and somebody needs to pay for the other side of it.
If 80% of the fish are being caught commercially, 80 percent of the budget should be accounted for either by commercial fishermen or the people purchasing fish from the commercial fishermen. One of the two. I mean, who am I? I mean, come on.
Maybe there’s a tax. There’s a license to go out and catch your own salmon. Call it a tax, it’s a license. But, if you’re consuming salmon - and I’m kind of a big “consumers pay” guy. I think that’s how it should be. If you consume it, you should pay for it. People who don’t consume it shouldn’t have to pay for it, as far as I’m concerned. Maybe there’s a percentage attached or something that goes on top of it.
The question then is, if you do that, does any of that money end up back in the fishery? I mean, really? I don’t think it ever would. I think about a quarter of it would, and the rest of it would go to butterflies and arctic terns. It would. Oh, yeah, cougars. Yeah, cougar sustainability, marine mammals, sea lions … They’ve had a hard time in California. It’d go there. Wouldn’t it? It would, wouldn’t it? That’s the problem with that. At some point, we’ve got to account for these expenses. We’ve got budget cuts, and I think it’s right. I think that people pay their way.
We’ll see you next week, same time, same place. In the meantime, keep those lines tight, and we’ll see you on the water. God bless everybody.
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